Cotton Mill 13.02.2010

[Bonedome]

Surely any infomation posted with regard to preserved locomotives operating "in area" cannot do much harm.
Indeed it may prove mutually beneficial, I was at Eccles yesterday and informed a like minded soul about the East Coast day at the ELR.
Once there was no point in pursuing the ill-fated "Cotton Mill" any further, the Gent in question made a bee-line to the ELR.
If we want to appear elitist, then yes, ELR loco's, stock and rails only, but for the day tripper who wants to cover that little bit more, surely the "Mainline" section of this forum is the place to post happenings and movements within, say, a twenty mile radius.

[martyn]

I was manning Rammy booking office yesterday, and 2 chaps came in, saying they had been waiting at Vic for the Cotton Mill express and been told it had failed, so came to visit us instead.
I was then able to tell 2 other visitors (who had bought tickets for a trip with us in the morning, but were planning to go and phot at Darwen later), and they were very grateful for the info, and stayed on ELR all afternoon instead.
So there is at least some connection between this main line trip and ELR.

[martyn]

Re my above comment - I should have said "briefly" manning Rammy booking office - Ron was on most of the day, I was just helping whilst he had a break. Sorry, Ron.

[Hymek The Cat]

Agree with the Daves and Andy on this. The section for Mainline Workings has the subtext "Details of ELR related charters, tours etc. using both steam and diesel loco's. Also incorporating update snippets on Ian Riley's work in progress." The Cotton Mill doesn't operate on the ELR, by the ELR or using an ELR based engine so has no ELR connection. This forum was setup to discuss ELR based topics. It is not a case of being elitist, simply a case of ensuring that the things discussed are kept focused on the ELR. There are plenty of other forums on which to discuss railtours that have non ELR connections. If the Cotton Mill is accepted as a valid discussion thread "because it is in the area" then there are plenty more rail happenings "in the area" that can be discussed and the forum will quickly lose its focus on the ELR.

[the_jon_m]

surly one of the most annoyign things to any newcomer on a forum is having people yell about what goes where and what should be on the forum.

true, that this isn't about an ELR engine or something usign ELR metals but, having a little discussion of this isn't going to kill anybody.

I was down in vic again this sat, and at least the cotton mill lot let us know about the train failure rather than letting us stand around for 2 hours like last time

I mentioned that there were the deltics, the 47 and black 5 running on the ELR. They'd never been to the ELR before, so we trammed up (well, to whitefield at least) and had a great day. As well as the running locos, we saw the duke being tested.

I told them what was running at the gala next week, and they will be coming back again. As will I

A lot of the people I saw at the ELR were at vic earlier in the day, so I think that ELR actually benifited from the Cotton Mill Express, and that could be justification for including it in the forum

[Bonedome]

Points taken, but by providing relevant, up to date information on "local" happenings, are we not giving the "undecided" a pointer towards the ELR.
If, for example, I had travelled up from "Darn' Sarf'", to see a certain loco and things didn't quite work out, where better to go in the North West than the ELR.
We all need contingency plans, just in case, and the ELR is always the best bet, if not the primary choice.

[David Peacock]

Watch this space for an announcement regarding 2 very relevant railtours, shame if such announcements got lost within irrelevant information.

Why not a compromise - leave this section for relevant workings and have a sub section within the general section for non-elr mainline workings?

[TBirdFrank]

David - Its nothing to do with red rags, and everything to do with the stance portrayed by the ELR - which is all to often grumpy, unhelpful and confrontational.

I have repeatedly seen that for myself directed at both working members and paying visitors alike - and I wish that sometimes people would stop and listen to themselves before they open up in public.

This is the "unofficial" ELR forum and not part of the business or propaganda arm of the ELR.

Accordingly its occasional use for "off ELR" subjects has nothing to do with the ELR management, and everything to do with indicating an open and informative outlook amongst ELR people in respect of interested enthusiasts dropping into this forum for a look, or appearing on the line itself.

If the ELR does not want to be regarded as mainstream and welcoming, then the sort of blinkered outlook put forward by the puritan thinkers who made the original posts is plain to see.

You don't have to fit the cap - but at the moment it sure looks that way.

[Hymek The Cat]

David - Its nothing to do with red rags, and everything to do with the stance portrayed by the ELR - which is all to often grumpy, unhelpful and confrontational.

I have repeatedly seen that for myself directed at both working members and paying visitors alike - and I wish that sometimes people would stop and listen to themselves before they open up in public.

This is the "unofficial" ELR forum and not part of the business or propaganda arm of the ELR.

Accordingly its occasional use for "off ELR" subjects has nothing to do with the ELR management, and everything to do with indicating an open and informative outlook amongst ELR people in respect of interested enthusiasts dropping into this forum for a look, or appearing on the line itself.

If the ELR does not want to be regarded as mainstream and welcoming, then the sort of blinkered outlook put forward by the puritan thinkers who made the original posts is plain to see.

You don't have to fit the cap - but at the moment it sure looks that way.

It's nothing to do with the "stance portrayed by the ELR". A forum must have guidelines for use otherwise it will descend into a free for all and will lose its focus. Many other forums set up for heritage railways, both official an unofficial, do not tolerate discussion on subjects not related to that railway. I suggest you read what the section is titled and the sub text to that section. While your at it why not try some other heritage railway forums and try posting on subjects not related to that railway. But will you come back on here and admit there are other forums that have the same policy?

[david layland]

Frank,

Anyone who peruses any railway forum will know of your undoubted ability to put forward your opinion and of course, there is nothing wrong with that.
However, from past skirmishes, I also know of your ability to express your opinion to have a downer on most things ELR and you never waste an opportunity, in particular to regard the ELR as unhelpful, grumpy or elitist. Indeed, I am sure that you have caused many arguments in an empty room.

My last comment on this matter is:-

At the risk of repeating myself , the heading of this section is Mainline workings - 'Details of ELR related tours, charters etc. using both steam and diesel locos - including Ian Riley's activities.' I do not see - and neither do many others where 'The Cotton Mill Express' with 46115 comes into this category. Indeed you may note that the previous 'Cotton Mill Express' thread was removed by the moderators pending clarification because of this very fact - I still await the Moderators response of this one - over a week ago now.

If the moderators decide that this section should be widened, then so be it - but if people continue to post ( currently) inappropriate (for this forum) topics then there is absolutely no argument - and Frank, you can try and change or widen the argument as much as you wish - it is simply nothing other than whether or not this topic is presently appropriate for this forum

[Bonedome]

It appears to have come to a sad state of affairs when we cannot for one reason or another post information that may be of benefit to others.
If the posting of renewed timings for "Cotton Mill" or any other "local" workings were a daily occurence, then I can understand peoples concerns.
I am aware that other sites exist, but not all have the lively and up to date input of this one, which makes this nueELR site such a valuable source of information to people from outside the area and to "newbies" such as myself.
Perhaps a section dedicated to Lancashire/ North West movements in general could be created ?

[sleeper]

Perhaps the Messroom would be a more suitable place for topics such as this ?

[the_jon_m]

okay, how about this ....

on the orginal Cotton Mill Express timetable, the Scott was to light engine up to Castleton and use the triangle to turn around.


Can we count this as ELR, or is there a certain amout of inches it has to be along the line before it can be talked about on here ?

[malc]

At the risk of repeating myself , the heading of this section is Mainline workings - 'Details of ELR related tours, charters etc. using both steam and diesel locos - including Ian Riley's activities.' I do not see - and neither do many others where 'The Cotton Mill Express' with 46115 comes into this category.

I suppose it all depends on what you take "ELR related" and "etc" to mean. Arguably, info about a tour hauled by a Scot passing so close to ELR territory have just as much relevance and interest to many readers of this forum than, say, 40145 operating a tour in the South West of England or 45407 running between Fort William and Mallaig. Personally, I think there's a place for all three - if you're not interested, don't read it.

[Old Boiler]

Maybe one reason this is talked about is because you can usually get a reply to queries about it , not like a few E L R items with a ban/silence/nod nod wink wink,you know what we mean when I am sure the majority of the readers of this forum have not got the faintest idea.......